00:00 Stem Cell Therapy and Longevity

Dr. Nayan Patel: Welcome to the Longevity Pharmacist Podcast. I am your host, Dr. Nayan Patel. Today we have Dr. Yi Song here, from Boston, Colombia, China, and Puerto Rico. She is the author of The Regeneration Effect and an expert in traditional Chinese medicine who is introducing stem cells to us. We are privileged to have her here today. Thank you for joining our podcast.

Dr. Yi Song: I am so excited to be here. Thank you.

Dr. Nayan Patel: I hear you are the seventeenth-generation physician in your family.

Dr. Yi Song: Yes. My great-grandfather and the generations before him practiced Chinese medicine in China, and some were court physicians to the emperors. My grandparents on my mother’s side practiced Western medicine. My grandmother went to a medical school established by the Rockefeller Foundation in China, and I initially went to that school as well. My grandfather’s younger brother was the private physician to Chairman Mao, and he wrote The Private Life of Chairman Mao, which was translated into English while he was in the United States.

01:52 From Chinese Medicine to Stem Cells

Dr. Nayan Patel: Today we are going to talk about stem cells. I hear you moved from traditional Chinese medicine into stem cells because there is a similar concept. Tell me how that transition happened for you.

Dr. Yi Song: I never really thought about stem cells until five years ago, because I did not know they could be used for treatment. I already had a retreat in Colombia, which I began in 2018, and I was introduced to a stem cell lab there by chance. I visited the lab three times. Because I had experience growing cells in tissue culture, I understood what they were doing and found it fascinating.

At the same time, my mother had a condition in her leg that had not been resolved for two years. I knew that, if not treated correctly, it could progress to ulceration and eventually amputation. I knew of another mother with a similar condition who had received experimental stem cell treatment in Boston without success, then later required amputation. I researched my mother’s condition and thought that, although there was no proof stem cells would work, we should try because I did not want her to face an amputation or spend the remainder of her life in a wheelchair. We did a stem cell treatment using cells from that lab in Colombia, and within months her inflammation was reduced significantly.

04:21 Immune Modulation and Mesenchymal Stem Cells

Dr. Nayan Patel: What role do stem cells play?

Dr. Yi Song: I think stem cells can regulate the immune system. Based on what I learned then, and over the past five years, they may help modulate immune function. In an autoimmune condition, the immune system is overacting and attacking the body’s own tissue. Mesenchymal stem cells may interact with T-helper cells and help make that response less active. On the other side, when the immune system does not function efficiently, malfunctioning cells may not be removed at the right time. I think stem cell treatment may help an overactive immune system become less active and may help an underactive immune system function more efficiently.

05:58 Four Types of Stem Cells Explained

Dr. Nayan Patel: When you say stem cells, what types of cells are you using? Adult stem cells, embryonic stem cells, or pluripotent stem cells?

Dr. Yi Song: There are four types of stem cells. Many people hear “stem cells” and think they are all the same. The ones we use are called mesenchymal stem cells. They are not pluripotent; they are multipotent. That means they can grow into certain tissues, such as bone, cartilage, skin, neurons, and connective tissue, but they do not grow into everything. They cannot grow into heart tissue or muscle in the way pluripotent cells can.

A common question is whether stem cells can cause cancer. If mesenchymal stem cells are used without contamination from other cell types, the discussion is different from the risk associated with other cell types. Hematopoietic stem cells are found in bone marrow and generally produce blood cells. They are used for leukemia, lymphoma, and blood-related conditions, not for joint treatment.

Mesenchymal stem cells can be extracted from a person’s bone marrow or fatty tissue. With bone marrow, there can be concern about contamination with hematopoietic cells. In reported cases involving tumors after joint injections, the cell lineage was later examined to determine where the injected cells came from. That is one reason I focus on mesenchymal stem cells from umbilical cord sources.

08:48 PRP, Stem Cells, and Red Light

Dr. Nayan Patel: Is this similar to PRP, platelet-rich plasma?

Dr. Yi Song: No. Platelet-rich plasma is concentrated platelets. Your plasma can contain your own body’s stem cells. People have discussed whether certain herbs may stimulate bone marrow to release more stem cells into the bloodstream, and some people say that treating platelet plasma with red light could stimulate components in the plasma. This is not well studied or proven.

For joint injections, I have used platelet-rich plasma mixed with stem cells, and I have treated the plasma with red light. My thinking is that, if red light can stimulate mitochondria in cells, it may stimulate what is present in the plasma. We do not know, but that is what I have been using.

10:36 Embryonic and Induced Pluripotent Cells

Dr. Nayan Patel: What about embryonic stem cells and ethical sourcing?

Dr. Yi Song: Embryonic stem cells are pluripotent and can grow into tumors. There are also ethical concerns because obtaining embryonic stem cells involves an embryo. The fourth type is induced pluripotent stem cells. Those are made in a laboratory. A skin cell, which is already a developed cell, can be exposed to cell-signaling molecules to induce it to become a stem cell again.

Researchers have studied induced pluripotent stem cells for conditions such as Parkinson’s disease by directing them toward dopamine-secreting cells and implanting them into the brain. There has also been research involving insulin-secreting pancreatic cells for type 1 diabetes. These are experimental areas; I do not know how well individual cases have worked over time.

13:02 Stem Cells, Exosomes, and Cellular Aging

Dr. Nayan Patel: Most of the clients I work with are healthy to begin with. Are stem cells working at the cellular level? Are they reversing an aging process, or are they only helping boost the immune system?

Dr. Yi Song: It is not just boosting the immune system. People are concerned about donor cells because umbilical cord cells come from someone else rather than from their own body. People often think their own cells would work better, but your body’s own stem cells age with you. If you are sixty, your body’s stem cells are also aged.

Published research has examined mesenchymal stem cells extracted from a person’s bone marrow or fatty tissue and grown with umbilical cord cell matrix over three passages. After those generations, researchers evaluated whether the person’s own cells displayed younger properties similar to umbilical cord stem cells. The idea is that the environment from the umbilical cord can affect cell behavior.

The question is whether stem cells only affect immune function or do other things. Exosomes from umbilical cord cells may signal the body’s own stem cells. When you get a stem cell infusion or injection, it is not just regulating the immune system; it may also be sending signals to your own body’s stem cells.

16:11 Traditional Chinese Medicine Perspective

Dr. Yi Song: In traditional Chinese medicine, this relates to supplying energy to the body’s original energy. The origin of life energy is associated with kidney energy, and, at an energetic level, that concept also encompasses the adrenal glands. I believe umbilical cord stem cells supply fuel or extra energy to the body’s original source of energy and provide a boost. In my book, I compare it to a battery jump starter in a car.

Dr. Nayan Patel: That raises the question: should stem cells be used preventively? Are they only for treatment? Could anybody use them frequently?

17:25 Preventive Use and Treatment Frequency

Dr. Yi Song: I think someone can use them preventively, although daily use would be overkill. For someone who is healthy and interested in anti-aging treatment without doing many separate treatments, I have been experimenting on myself. I have received stem cells every three or four months. I feel healthy, and I feel that doing this regularly has anti-aging effects for me, but of course I do not have proof. When I am ninety, perhaps I can tell people whether it really worked.

Dr. Nayan Patel: If someone were to receive treatment three or four times per year, it could be expensive.

Dr. Yi Song: It depends on where treatment is obtained. In Los Angeles it may be expensive. In Colombia, treatment from a lab I consider a good source may cost less than some high-priced anti-aging treatments. I have received cells from that lab many times and value its quality controls.

19:59 Hype, Science, and Treatment Quality

Dr. Nayan Patel: Can you tell me what is hype and what is real science behind stem cells? If someone spends substantial money on stem cells, how do they know whether they are paying for hype or real results?

Dr. Yi Song: Anything related to longevity or health can involve either hype or something real. Red light, for example, has evidence for effects on mitochondrial pathways, but when many devices are promoted on social media it can be difficult to tell which claims are real and which are hype.

A similar issue exists with exosome treatment. Someone may be offered an exosome product with a stated particle count, while other products do not even state how many exosomes are in the treatment. A meaningful evaluation requires more than saying a product came from umbilical cord or amniotic fluid. It matters whether testing and measurements are available.

24:39 Exosomes Versus Stem Cells

Dr. Nayan Patel: My pharmacist’s brain starts working when I hear about a nasal spray of cells. How does it get absorbed through the nasal passages? The second question is whether stem cells themselves do the work, or whether they produce signaling molecules that do the work. If signaling molecules are responsible, why not just use exosomes instead of stem cells?

Dr. Yi Song: Stem cells produce signaling molecules inside your body. When you receive stem cells, they can continuously release vesicles, or exosomes. If you receive exosomes without stem cells, once those vesicles are used, they are gone because the product is acellular. That is why treatment with stem cells may have a longer-lasting signaling effect than receiving exosomes alone.

For nasal application, there are papers discussing passage across the cribriform plate. For a nasal spray, exosomes are generally discussed rather than stem cells because stem cells are much larger. Stem cells may be between ten and thirty micrometers, while an exosome may be around 150 nanometers.

Dr. Nayan Patel: My research has been on glutathione and the difficulty of delivering it through the system. In my lab, we have exosome research underway to test delivery using similar technology, currently in vitro. It may not be necessary for a signaling molecule to enter every cell if the body receives the message, but delivery is still an important question.

Dr. Yi Song: The other aspect of stem cells is their response to signals from the body. Where there is inflammation, the inflammatory site releases signals. Stem cells may be attracted to those signals and begin releasing cell-signaling molecules that support repair and reduce inflammation. People also ask whether donor cells affect their DNA. Vesicles have been discussed as carrying young mitochondria to cells, potentially increasing mitochondrial function without stem cells entering the cells themselves.

29:23 Longevity and Personalized Treatment

Dr. Nayan Patel: Longevity is my focus. If healthy people in their sixties or seventies want to stay healthy, do you recommend stem cell treatments? How often? Would stem cells or exosomes be the better option?

Dr. Yi Song: You can combine exosomes with stem cells, and every person depends on the case. Not everybody is the same. One principle I discuss in my book is recognizing your body’s constitution. Today a person may look at genetic background through DNA testing, and also try to understand body type. Ayurvedic medicine and Chinese medicine both describe different body types.

In Chinese medicine, dried placenta has been used to nourish the body. The concept is not new; the technology is new. With intravenous stem cell infusion, I do not currently see the same restriction for people who have an “excess” constitution. For healthy people in their sixties or seventies who want an extra boost, a combination of approaches, such as treatment, red light, or herbs discussed as supporting release of the body’s own stem cells, may support bodily function and slow aging.

31:55 Why Aging Is Not Simply Reversed

Dr. Yi Song: I never believed aging can be reversed.

Dr. Nayan Patel: I want to believe there is potential to live a very long time and stay healthy. I hoped stem cells might help reverse the aging process a little. What if we could restore the full pool of stem cells?

Dr. Yi Song: Even if you received a stem cell infusion every day, your body would still age. Injected stem cells do not replace all of your body’s own stem cells; they stimulate your own cells, which still have to do the work. Your cells are still affected by aging-related DNA instability, splicing, telomeres, and other changes. Unless a treatment changes all of the relevant cells in the body, how would it reverse aging?

34:12 Cancer Risk and Treatment Cautions

Dr. Nayan Patel: We hear good things about stem cells. What is the potential for negative reactions?

Dr. Yi Song: If you have cancer, you need to be careful. It is very difficult to say whether stem cells would help or make a condition worse. Someone may not know they have cancer at an early stage because diagnosis often happens later. In cases without a diagnosed cancer or detectable nodule, I think stem cells may help immune surveillance, but that question must be treated cautiously.

I also spoke with an engineer about red light. When red light is used in cancer, cancer cells may hijack that energy to grow faster. The same concern can arise with stem cells because they release growth factors that help bodily function, and a cancer cell may hijack that support as well.

Dr. Nayan Patel: I understand that kind of question from glutathione research. People ask whether glutathione feeds cancer cells. There are papers along those lines, but glutathione is also associated with natural killer cell activity. It depends on what is being researched and what part of the process is being examined.

Dr. Yi Song: In my opinion, long-term physical or emotional stress contributes to illness by blocking circulation. One principle in my book is that the body is a garden, with an intricate irrigation system. In Chinese medicine, cancer is considered stagnation; long-term stagnation is when it becomes cancer. That is why it is important to keep a calm mind and reduce stress. That is an important part of healthy aging.

38:59 Individual Recommendations and Early Treatment

Dr. Nayan Patel: There is so much hype and so much that is unknown about stem cells. Years ago I worked with a stem cell researcher in California and my company made products for research and development. People were cautious then and remain cautious today. Knowing what type of stem cell is being used, what not to use, and what can be used with reasonable safety matters, even when full benefit is not known. For me personally, if I am healthy or perhaps have a nerve issue without knowing the source, how would you treat differently?

Dr. Yi Song: You look healthy and relaxed, which is a very good quality. If you do not have joint problems, worn joints, or significant pain, you might consider stem cell treatment once or twice per year through intravenous infusion to support immune function and the repair system. For someone already starting to have symptoms, treatment decisions are different.

I have had a knee injury for fifteen years, including a complete ACL tear. I did not want surgery because I could still hike without a problem. I received stem cell treatments three years ago and did not need further treatment for three years. Recently I received another treatment after feeling a small amount of pain while climbing a ladder. After that, I have been fine. The earlier treatment is considered, the better the potential outcome, because that is the early prevention principle. Many people wait until a doctor has said they need a knee replacement and then ask whether they can be helped.

41:09 Hair Loss and Regenerative Options

Dr. Nayan Patel: I lost my hair fifteen years ago. Is it too late for me to grow hair again?

Dr. Yi Song: That may be a little late. Did you lose your hair because of stress or because of genetics in your family?

Dr. Nayan Patel: I do not have it in my family. I started losing hair around age twenty-four, and it gradually became worse. I am a pharmacist, so I understand medications and their potential side effects, and I was not willing to tolerate those effects. There are good hair-growth treatments available, but something else may have to pay the price.

Dr. Yi Song: Another option is transplant. After a transplant, stem cell treatment may be discussed as a way to support the transplant. A doctor who works in my clinic in Colombia specializes in hair treatment.

Dr. Nayan Patel: Perhaps that is a trip for me, although hair transplantation takes substantial work. I am comfortable without hair, but I was curious.

43:34 Daily Practices and Closing Thoughts

Dr. Nayan Patel: We have been discussing stem cells for a long time. In closing, if you had all the money in the world and no ethical concerns, how would you do treatments differently today?

Dr. Yi Song: I think I would still do the same things I am doing now. I would use stem cell intravenous infusion several times per year and also consider a hyperbaric chamber and red light therapy, depending on the person’s body type. I would address inherent weaknesses and moderate excesses, because everybody has them. Then live happily. Promoting circulation, getting into nature, connecting to the earth, and connecting to natural energy are also important.

Dr. Nayan Patel: Thank you for being here. How can people find you?

Dr. Yi Song: They can go to StemCellTherapyExperts.com and find Stem Cell Talk on Apple Podcasts and other podcast platforms. I have my podcast talking about stem cells.

Dr. Nayan Patel: Please get her book, The Regeneration Effect, by Dr. Yi Song. Thank you very much for coming on the podcast today. I appreciate it.

Dr. Yi Song: It was very nice talking to you today. Thank you.